CGTN | 23-Sep-2020
WANG GUAN, CGTN
Secretary Kerry, what can we expect on the strategic track?
JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE
Well there are many things on the strategic track. Obviously of enormous concern is the situation in North Korea; the threatening nature of the regime in North Korea. We need to work very closely with China. We are really two key partners in the efforts to try to denuclearize the Korean Peninsula. We also need to focus on the relationship between Japan and China, South Korea and China, and Japan and South Korea, and that’s a very important triangle that we really need to be focused on. We need to focus on the South China Sea. There is a great tension, as you know, regarding the question of boundaries and the question of sovereignty over certain portions of the South China Sea in the Thomas Shoals and the Scarborough Shoals, the fisheries, and all of these issues – we need to talk about them. We’re going to focus on climate change very, very significantly. Secretary Lew and I – President Obama particularly – believe that climate change offers us enormous opportunities to make choices about energy and energy policy which will open up a vast new market for all of our countries and help solve the problem of climate change. So we’re particularly interested in working on the 2015 targets that have to be announced by both of our countries, and we want to try to work on those together. And then, of course, we have number of issues globally where China’s leadership is important – Iran and Iran’s nuclear program, Syria…we could love to try to find a way to resolve the killing and to end the crisis of Syria, the Mideast peace process –in all of these China is a very important player, a very important potential partner with us and we look forward to having a good discussion.
WANG GUAN, CGTN
One issue of hypersensitivity back in China was America’s policy of pivot to Asia. Since the announcement of the policy we’ve seen America strengthening alliances and forging new partnerships, and if you look on the map – actually I brought one here today – these alliances and partnerships encircled none other than China, so many back in China believe that the Asia pivot is largely aimed at containing China.
JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE
Well let me see your map a minute. Let me show you something
WANG GUAN, CGTN
Or at least hedging against China.
JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE
This is not a circle. All of these are areas where China has very strong relationships and the United States is not trying to do things. We’re involved with countries – Philippines, Vietnam has been an emerging relationship since our war – we are involved with countries with whom we have a very longstanding security relationship. The fact is that we do not have a policy of containment of China or of encirclement of China. What we’re trying to do is grow the relationship of a Pacific nation. We are a Pacific nation. For hundreds of years the United States has been engaged in the entire region going back into the 1800 when we first became a sea power. So America is only pursuing what we have pursued and mostly we’re trying to grow the marketplace for all of us with a set of rules that everybody can play by. That why the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which Secretary Lew is so involved in designing, is an opportunity for all of the countries, ultimately even China. It will grow; it will become a very significant economic trading entity and we would welcome China and others to meet the standards and live up to these sort of higher standards by which we all engage in business and everybody will benefit form that. But China really needs to move away from this theory…this conspiracy theory that somehow the United States is focused exclusively on China and on containing China.
WANG GUAN, CGTN
The (containment) theory’s false?
JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE
The theory is 100% false. We are anxious to build a strong working partnership with China as a leading economic power and a leading strategic power with a major role at the United Nations and in terms of world affairs.
WANG GUAN, CGTN
What does the Asia Pivot mean from an economic perspective, Secretary Lew?
JACK LEW, FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY
From an economic perspective, as Secretary Kerry was saying, the Trans-Pacific Partnership was designed to raise standards, to have a high quality agreement so that we could increase the growth and the economic activity in the whole region. That’s good for the United States, it’s good for China, and it’s good for the global economy. We started TPP as a way to say anyone who’s willing to live with high standards is welcome to be part of it. We want to drive the world to being open without barriers and to have fair, level playing field, which is good for all of our economies. It was misunderstood early on in China. As I’ve had conversations over the last year and a half, I think it’s better understood now. The questions are very different now than they were even 18 months ago. It is not something that was designed to keep China out or about China, it was designed to raise standards and we hope China can raise its standards in so many of the ways we’re talking about.Great powers have responsibilities. As an economic great power, one of the two largest economies in the world, China in particular has a lot of responsibility, as do we.
WANG GUAN, CGTN
So the US would welcome China’s participation?
JACK LEW, FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY
We have designed TPP as being opens for countries that have high standards that want to join. I think the challenge for China would be to meet the high standards and we think that’s a challenge that’s worthy of all the countries in the region of seeking.
WANG GUAN, CGTN
Secretary Kerry, another issue of hypersensitivity back in China is China-Japan territorial disputes over Diaoyu Island. Last month, when President Obama was in Asia, he said the Diaoyu Island falls under U.S.-Japan security treaty. What does that mean? Does that mean the U.S. will come to Japan’s defense should there be a war between China and Japan?
JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE
Well I hope there’s never going to be a war between China and Japan. I can’t think of anything more wasteful or unnecessary. This is something that can be resolved. You are talking about some rocks of the ocean that aren’t exactly the largest area of land, or criticality. So people ought to be able to find a reasonable way forward but we have always recognized we do not make a determination as to the sovereignty over the island. The United States do not make that determination. What we have said is that true to recent history certainly, Japan has administered the authority over those islands. Administered the authority. We are saying that any aggressive action by any country, not just China, but by any country, would have to fall under our security relationship with Japan. And we have responsibilities under that security relationship. But our first goal is to try to see Japan and China work to come back to where it was before when it was not such a contentious issue, and work through a peaceful resolution.
WANG GUAN, CGTN
Secretary Kerry, but lots of people back in China feel and perceive that America is not being fair perhaps, because Washington would selectively look at facts on the ground to support its treaty ally Japan. For example, they said, it was really the Japanese government’s nationalization of the island in September 2012 that started to escalated tensions, which was ignored by Washington.
JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE
No it hasn’t been ignored. We acknowledged when the mayor of Tokyo moved independently in order to buy the islands and have am impact on it, this had an impact on people’s perceptions. We don’t deny that. What we are asserting ,however, is the way to solve it is not by having ships in near collision and flights that are provocative. The way to solve it is through the international legal system, through the Law of the Sea and different courts of arbitration. And frankly through dialogue together. You will have to be able to resolve this kind of issues. One of the defining attributes of a great power relationship, of a great power status, is that you act responsibly and try to work through these things to set an example to other nations. You can’t have force. China appropriately opposed, expressed its concerns about Russia moving into Crimea. Why? Because that was a unilateral action, use of force, in order to assert something. By the same standards, China and Japan both need to refrain from similar kinds of activities to assert jurisdiction over these islands. They need to be resolved in a peaceful way.
WANG GUAN, CGTN
Talking about Japan. People noticed its move to the right. Because since taking office, Prime Minister Abe has visited the Yasukuni shrine. He launched school textbook reforms to downplay World War II history, and he’s launched what’s considered a revisionist investigation over comfort women. Is the U.S. concerned by such moves?
JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE
Yes and we have expressed that concern. We were very specific about the concerns of the visit to the shrine. Our ambassador spoke out in Japan and we have expressed our concern. We think it’s very very important not to have revisionism of history. It’s important for countries to deal with you. We’ve encouraged the Japanese to deal with this issue with Korea with respect to the comfort women, and we would continue to encourage them to do so. But we don’t want any country trying to use these issues to drive wedges. It’s important that people engage in a quiet and appropriate kind of dialogue to resolve these problems in ways that don’t embarrass people, or try to win public victories. That’s not what this is about. This is about building relationships, and building a future in which the people of all of the countries in that region can feel that they are secure and they are living with stability and with the promises of future economic growth and development so that they do better.
WANG GUAN, CGTN
Taking about regional economic development, obviously China-U.S. Investment relationship is very important. Secretary Lew, you mentioned the Bilateral Investment treaty, the negotiation over which re-started last year, when can we expect it to conclude? What are the challenges?
JACK LEW, FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY
These are always challenging agreements and I think it was an important first move that China last year said it would move to a negative list. We have not yet seen that list populated. We’ve not seen exactly how Shanghai Free Trade Zone develops. I think there is work to be done there and we look forward to engaging with our Chinese counterparts. I don’t think bilateral investment treaties get negotiated in days and weeks so it’s not something that’s likely to be completed at this moment. But we continue to make progress and continue to open markets. You know we pride ourselves that the United States, our markets, are among the most open in the world. From the beginning of our country, encouraging foreign direct investment has been one of the ways we’ve grown. I actually think it would be good for China to make progress in this area and good for the world economy. Certainly there are American companies that would be happy to do business in China if the level playing field can be provided. There are other issues of concern that’s outside the scope of the bilateral investment treaty. You talk to companies seeking to invest in China, the questions about intellectual property come up almost every time. So it’s part of a package of issues where to be one of the leading economies in the world, to be one of the leading nations in the world, you have to meet a certain set of standards. And we look forward to working with China as it meets those standards and we can strengthen our economic relationship. One of the things I will say is that in times where there are other issue that are challenging, we continue to make progress on economics issues. It’s important for both our countries and for the world economy.
WANG GUAN, CGTN
Talking about challenging issues, cyber security is definitely one. When the U.S. Indicted five Chinese military officers last month, it said industrial espionage is something the U.S. does not do. But according to revelations by Edward Snowden, the NSA has hacked into private firms as well as trade officials, including the anti-trust commissioner of the EU, Mr.Joaquin Almunia, to allegedly advance America’s economic interests. Because Mr. Almunia had previously fined Microsoft and Intel and threaten to fine Google. So how are these activities, Secretary Kerry, different from what the U.S. accused China of doing? Is there a double standard here?
JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE
None. None whatsoever. And I can absolutely guarantee you that the United States does not engage in any kind of information gathering through any government, security service, in order to transfer to any business, or to advance American business. It just doesn’t happen. Period.
WANG GUAN, CGTN
But according to a (U.S.) congressional report, as early as 1996, this report is called Aspin-Brown report on U.S. Intelligence capability. It said “U.S. Government spies on foreign firms to identify situations where U.S. commercial firms are at a competitive disadvantage”. And thanks to such efforts, ” U.S. Firms obtained billions in foreign contracts they would otherwise have lost.” Isn’t this industrial espionage?
JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE
I have no idea where that information comes from or how it’s compiled. I can tell you there is no active, ordered, instructed policy by which any government agency is gathering information for economic purposes or advantage that it then transfers to any company in America. I don’t know if on some instance, somebody gathered something or did it on their own or whatever, I can’t tell you that. But I can tell you it is not ordered by, sanctioned by, or proved by the government and by this administration.
WANG GUAN, CGTN
Finally on Iraq – Secretary Kerry you just came back from Iraq. Now looking back at the turmoil – this is something you have been very engaged in – do you think the previous administration’s intervention in Iraq in 2003 was, as some call, a grave mistake? And what will the U.S. do next?
JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE
Well I’m on record historically, not only in saying that it was a grave mistake, but in running against the president who ordered it and offering an alternative, so I’m hardly capable of, you know, ducking that squarely. Yes, I think it was a grave mistake and I think we are still working through many of the problems associated with it even today. There is a huge residual hangover – a cloud that hangs over the region as a consequence of that decision. Now, We are working very hard, President Obama’s decision was to make certain that we tried to change that, and that’s why he moved to withdraw the combat troops. And now we’re working very, very hard to empower the Iraqis themselves. They have to make this decision. Iraqis have to decide who their government is and it needs to be a representative unity government that brings people together and resolves through its reforms, in terms of its relationship to the Kurds, its relationship to the Sunni – everybody… and the Shia…all have to be feeling as if their needs are being met through the governmental process and structures that are established. That’s what we hope will emerge through the Iraqis themselves and their decisions in the next few days.
WANG GUAN, CGTN
Thank you so much Secretary Lew and Secretary Kerry.
JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE
Thank you, good to be with you.
JACK LEW, FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY
Good to be with you.
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